As with the previous threads, the purpose of this is to discuss and wonder about future events in The Last Sovereign. Feel free to continue discussions from other threads (or forums), preferably with links or context. Debate is welcome as long as it remains civil. Also, please don't try to shout down others' theories on the basis that it's against mere fan consensus. Please do not delve into game files and post results on this thread as this is pure player opinion and speculation... plus the developer is known to insert misleading plot information for delvers to find. Warnings: This thread will contain SPOILERS. This thread will contain advance information from patreon builds. This thread may contain wild speculation, total conjecture, and possibly even the correctly guessed truth. If you want to avoid spoilers, avoid this thread.

Given that the Anak created two Incubi and set up the Tower game, I suspect he might have played it all in a bid to lure Tanurak in. I think he even said something about it happening sooner than anticipated. Also, it's not clear if Nyst actually got part of his shard or is simply a construct made to seem like he did. Since he requested a day to put up some contest, it's probably phase two of the Anak's plan, whatever it might be. (A trap against Tanurak?) Given how the Skullpounder looks and talks like the Skullcrusher, it's also possible that he reused the later's shard to create the former. If this is the case, and Nyst is indeed a shardless construct, then it's possible that no actual shard fragmenting took place to create his pet incubi. Shard fragmenting was just the team's first hypothesis, along with the motive that it was to emulate the Empress' success with the Doom King, which is probably false too.

Cazador About your theory regarding Skullpounder there are is one issue. The Stineford IK (who had a shard from Fucklord) shares the same appearance as well. Most likely, Sierra is just reusing assets for easily disposable characters. As for baiting Tanny boy, I am not that sure. The one who intercepted Tanurak was the Lustlord not him. Why bait someone and not bother to intercept him? Was he hoping that Lustlord would do the job for him. I don't know.

It's not only the look. Skullpounder, Skullcrusher... there are clear similarities. To be more clear, I don't think the Anak planned to kill Tanurak the moment he showed up, because otherwise having Nyst organize an event would be pointless.

Cazador I reread the investigation scenes of both Skully and Nyst. While it is made clear that Nyst's shard was part of Anak's in Skully's case is quite more ambiguous. So you might have a point. One more thing, Fuzkao (who took Fucklord's piece) named himself Flamelord. Hm...

i think nyst a tower construct of some sort made by the anak for his purpose. if you replay the section, after nyst say to have a event there is a dialogue box with xerces with only "..." the thing puzzle me the most is why empty his room? it isn't simple leaving all in it, an simulate a little use? this is a huge reg flag for something amiss for anyone with the ability to sneak in (and xerces know very well in the gathering there is at least one able to do so, we/simon group)... Sierra in patreon comments say about skullpounder made the same arc of skullcrasher for some "nostalgic comeback" of sort. but the anak doesn't have done anything to control or guide skullpounder, he only give a little shard fragment, and not in a direct way, if i read the investigation dialogue right, anak influence begin only after the start of the gathering, with a bottle magically charged. in reverse nyst shard IS the anak shard subtely disguises. i found more relevant is the ability to broke a fragment of the shard within him without killing himself (unlike estaven did), this mean the process can be mimic with the divine shard. perhaps yarra was right and tertia can be chiped off, or other goddess can give some fraction of their shards to other...

I thought that the Anak wasn't really trying to obscure Nyst's real nature from the three other big players (Esthera, Lustlord, Simon). If they're just expandable ressources for the Gathering, he just needed those who knew to roll with it for a time. Even if it's not a Tanurak trap, I do expect these two to be only pawns, and for his plan to culminate with Nyst's game. It's true that it means goddesses can also chop off. I admit, I was so focused on the Gathering I didn't think about it.

Mmm, new forum smell. The Anak's motives are still opaque to me. It seems like he's just trying to destabilize things now - killing the Sage, making new IK's, etc. I suppose that is one kind of balance.

Xestris did mention that he cares for Philon. It's another complexity layer.

TheEndingOfTheWords killing the sage was a measure to reduce the numbers of competent tower walkers able around. Mhityn asked simon to reduce the numbers of shard holders around for avoiding "wrost case scenario". perhaps this wrost case scenario is the Anak's goal. so making more IKs (replacing the ones simon group has removed) are needed.

The peaceful grey threat that Ginasta mentioned. An outcome where there is no chaos seems very similar to the course the Anak made due to how Sabitha described it as very much like the normal world where everything is defined and nothing can be Vague. and Lilith the avatar of chaos is described as hard to define due to being what she is.

Speculation Thread 12: Gathering Storm

TC_Leon

Goi12 Yes. What I would like to know is that if they were damaged before the Tanurak's assault in 0.57, what would happen to Tanurak? (Or what would happen in the Tower?)

BlueSwann

TC_Leon
I assumed that those three disturbances Tanurak created to distract us. Everyone (including Tanurak himself) always hypes him up as being incredibly subtle and a master of manipulation. If it truly was important to his plan, whatever it may be, it wouldn't be something that we could easily sense and defeat. Inversely, defeating it may have somehow helped him. Or more likely it was just a ploy for him to distract us and work on his own plots. Whether it was just to distract us from Mitthyn or from something greater remains to be seen.

Fulminato

TC_Leon there are some info ... let say i don't think they are classifiable a pure datamining infomration, but with an high probabiilty decanter should, so no extra information here, the only thing i can say don't think about that fights to strong, story wise...

TC_Leon

Anyway, it looks like Nyst did not survive after this event, and the person who created the prison are still unknown (Zelica mentioned Anak, but Tanurak suggested Alonon)

But there is one interesting question: How did some creatures in the prison know they are not real?

QiQi

TC_Leon They're dream like entities, I assume they would know what they are, since they're seems be like elementals.

Quirriff

The Anak captured Zelica but _____ captured Simon and Ivala.
The real question is why Zelica was able to make contact but not Ivala?

SotterPapaioannou

Quirriff I believe that the prisons are different somehow. Both Mithyn and Taniboy were able to reach her and communicate with her. In both cases the communication could theoretically continue indefinitely, as long as the captor was unaware. In Simon's case, for all her might (though she is not a part of the big 3 she was still considered an important threat by Xerces and Ulrissa) Wendis could only communicate with him for a very limited time.

Robohawk

Quirriff Zelica theorized that it's because their prisons are inverses and both far removed from reality. (She's a divine being imprisoned by an incubus, while he's an incubus imprisoned by divine power.) Both these factors make the prisons relatively close. Wherever Ivala is, she's a divine being imprisoned by divine power (maybe by her own power?)

ciurra

Quirriff i

Robohawk the horseshoe theory of lust and purity at work!

Cazador

Robohawk or imprisoned by powerful arcane magic, that's also a possibility

rmp321

I also get the feeling that Hester is a red herring and that the true mastermind could be someone else. Yet she has also been there since chapter 1 and would make a pretty solid twist villain anyway. Just the final boss of the game being an old lady seems really funny to me.

Seriathus

rmp321 I think it has to be Hester. The way she acted and some of the things she said... it's way too obvious. "Oh, Simon, you doubter, can't you believe that faith in Ivala can produce great miracles?" yeah right.

Seriathus

I mean, we have no way of knowing she chose him specifically. She might have set some kind of complex Rube Goldberg machine of coincidences and consequences that would end up producing something she wanted, and that something might've ended up being Simon, so that could explain why Tanurak mocked about her "putting all her hopes in him".

DukeLeto7

Seriathus She might have set some kind of complex Rube Goldberg machine

Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Qum? Uh, I think so, Ivala, but we'll never get a monkey to use dental floss.

rmp321

Seriathus

I don't disagree that she's the number one suspect. I just get the sense that even she might be getting long conned by someone else. Hester has already been shown as someone Simon can influence and manipulate during the gawnfall council. Yet I feel whoever could manage to capture the figurehead of their own religion, when the only resources available to them would be said religion, keep that secret from anyone else in the religion for years even when performing mass spells. I just feel like Hester would need to be far more subtle and craftier then we have seen thus far.

I think at most she would need to have worked with someone else who was deeply ingrained in the tower and walked the paths of power. Alonon comes to mind but considering how Ivala didn't seem to hold him in any ill contempt during her brief mention of the old man who was broken, I think its probably not him. Ulrissa seems to be uninterested and honestly pretty weak compared to other tower walkers. The king of Zirantia is dead. I think its likely to be whoever the final tower walker hidden from the Anaks sight is. It could be Hester, but what we know of her history she started as a young high priestess when the first war began and if she was strong enough to capture Ivala, I feel like she could have found a way to won the first war against the Incubus king. She could have had her captured post war, but it seems like Ivala has been trapped for at lot longer then that.

That's just how I feel though, there could be something I'm just missing.

Seriathus

rmp321 I guess the whole "ancient conspiracy" thing could be one possible explanation. Or Hester is working with our mysterious rival of the Anak. It could be a character we haven't seen before, but that feels strange to me. It could be simply that Hester isn't who she claims to be. The sprite we saw when Tanurak was imprisoned looked suspiciously like hers, but that's no guarantee of anything - sprites in RPGMaker aren't super detailed and illusions are an extremely common thing in TLS. I guess we'll have to wait and see, mostly because Hester is the best candidate we have. Alonon has too much going against him being our mysterious villain, like you said, and nobody else feels plausible.

Fulminato

rmp321 ivala is shielded by her choice. at least based on tertia saying. who captured her it's not in a physical way, but more cut off her from the world and 'harvest' her power.

for the IK original invasion, they don't have any chosen back then, and they start to appear only after the skirmish in zirantia when wendis die (based on sarai talk)

so i think their ability to use or even harvest ivala's power is recent, but her imprisonment is far more ancient.

wendis said to have 'see' "two focal points around which all reality flows"
one of them is "One of them is a very orderly type. Seems like he would definitely destroy me if he could, so I tried to stay away." and this should be the anak (hoever he is, he has all different kinds of power. We need to stay well away from him.)
the other: "It's extremely obscure, I think by design. Fortunately, it doesn't seem to look in my direction much." and this should be ivala.
tanurak when reach ivala mountain he said: "The world used to be so freely flowing and easily manipulated... it's become so unpleasantly stable.../Whatever THIS is, it's a central part of the whole pattern."

this don't help us to come close the true, but there are some facts to be added to the whole.

Cazador

rmp321 I just feel like Hester would need to be far more subtle and craftier then we have seen thus far.

Otherwise, people would suspect her of being the mastermind? Well she was my #1 suspect well before the white silhouette reveal, so I'd say it's her and she wasn't that subtle. :p

DukeLeto7

You're all ignoring the REAL center of this web of conspiracy... Just what have they been doing with all of those brooms?!?!

Seriathus

DukeLeto7 Sweeping the floor, duh.

That, or Sierra secretly knows Italian slang.

rmp321

Fulminato From what I gathered Ivala's "prison" is much the same as the incubus prison but meant to only hold and siphon power from her. It is an abstract location within the tower that binds powerful beings and blocks them from their full power. Though I think since Ivala's prison exists to pull divine power from her, she can still find subtle ways to influence the world. Like leading Carina to Simon and such.

I feel like something that's really important is that the interactions we have had with the "cloaked thief with a high pitched voice" gave us Ivala rp. Whoever that person is has ties to Ivala and is also as far as I can assume a powerful tower walker (since they are slippery enough to escape simons group two times.) I feel they hold a key to something we have yet to get revealed.

Cazador There are things that make me wonder though, like during the succession crisis she has a private meeting with Sarai simply to discuss why more chosen are showing up. If she is the one making chosen, it would be weird to pull Sarai in and tell her that "someone in the church is making more." When that puts as much eyes on her as it would anyone else. There is also that the post third war chosen are all centered around Aram. They are appearing on Arams border and during the Erosian prelude one shows up to fight the fucklord when he arrives to the Aram tower but none of the others. Meaning that whoever is making the new chosen seems to have a vested interest in Aram overall.

Seriathus

rmp321 Maybe the hooded thief could be an agent of Ivala. She might have been the one responsible for putting in motion Ivala's plan, the one she mentioned during her discussion with Tanurak.

As for the Chosen and the connection to Aram, I think that might be less something tied to Aram itself and more to the current political situation. We know Tanurak headed for Aram right after the end of the Incubus War, so he might've been fooled into thinking that the Anak's rival was in Aram, but it was a red herring. It seemed to be the case in the Erosian Crisis aftermath, when Simon and company investigate the Aramite Tower foundations and conclude that the trail actually ends there and it was a misdirection. I do agree it's a bit strange that Hester would tip off Sarai like that, though. Which does reinforce the idea that the mastermind could be someone working with Hester but not revealing everything to her.

Which incidentally could explain her attitude during the Council of Gawnfall. Her whole "this doesn't really matter" shtick as well as what she told Carina when she came to her with her doubts about Ivala. She knows that "Ivala" isn't nearly as omnipotent as the Church claims and she knows she's kind of a fraud who's working with the real mastermind, but she might not know all about their plans.

Fulminato

rmp321 no. the two prison are rather different, both mithyn and tanurak were able to sneak in and talk with ivala, but even wendis was able to send only a brief message to simon. incubus prison and zelica prison are rather similar.

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